Saturday, May 22, 2010

20 Kids and Counting?

There's been talk in a few of the comments on a resent post about the new People article and I finally got ahold of it, and here it is:

What does it mean? Well I have a lot to say about it, especially after my blog about "reading between the lines." First of all, I have a lot to say about the "psychologists" they quoted. It angers me that they say it's wrong to put so much "burden" on the older children. I suppose that would be true in a normal situation. However, this is ANYTHING but a normal situation. I think that any family that cares about each other would be bending over backwards to do whatever they could to help each other in a situation like this. Heck, I just had my gallbladder out, a minor procedure these days, where you're home after a few hours and better after a few days (according to my lying surgeon hahaha) and my parents were willing to drive 640 miles to spend a week with us and take care of my daughter for me while my husband kept working. Also, their "older children" are now adults--these "psychologists" don't bother to mention that.

I have nothing against the psychology/psychiatry fields. I've used them in the past. However, unsolicited observations by doctors that have never met the family are ridiculous. I don't recall the Duggars asking for any therapy or advice, rather it was People who asked for someone to anchor the article.

What does amaze me and also impress me is that Michelle and Jim Bob were so frank and honest about their marriage and how they've been with each other during this time. I've said it in other blogs and in this one in the comments that I have noticed on the show that Jim Bob and Michelle are rarely filmed anywhere near each other--not the lovey-dovey couple they usually are, but at the same time they are only filming her either leaving for the hospital or at the hospital. So hearing she spends 15 hrs a day there makes sense as to why. I've also said that she probably hasn't lost any baby weight because she's probably stress eating, she's eating a lot of extra protein and extra fluid to keep the pumping of milk going, and she is getting little or no exercise, so that's why she may look pregnant and not be. I also doubt that they are as intimate as usual because she says she gets up every 4 hours to pump--doesn't sound like a lot of romance going on.

But on the other hand, with fighting comes make-up sex. And in times of stress comes clinging together. It wouldn't surprise me if they are continuing with their intimate relationship. Her comment that was vague "...I don't know, maybe..." says it all. But then, I say that too, because until my cycle starts, I don't know either, since we don't use birth control. I was also told by my nurse in the UK that you are the most fertile right after having a child, so those first few months were vital--but also she was healing--who knows?

I love how this family sticks together, looks forward, holds true to their beliefs, and thinks positively. Baruch Hashem!


  1. I say if she is so what? I have said over and over again it is not our business, but the naysayers seem to think if they protest and protest somehow the Duggars will answer to them and not God. In my family when we need each other we ban together. It could be someone haveing a baby,being sick, or soemthing as simple as a event. Family in my opinpon are suppose to be there for each other. What I find funny is back in the day families always help with everything. They worked in the fields, cook etc.. Somes kids didn't even attend school because they help out on the farm. Now I realize that times have change,but the power of family hasn't in my life. I think the way they all care and love each other in their family is great. I really think the comments mostly are how of greed or lacking something in their life. I also think some are those catty wommen who are in ever church who preach the Bible,but never have anything nice to say about others. I know a few on the TLC page like that. lol I am glad they live their life the way they want. I have never heard anybody say the child services were out their. What can you put in your report. Family loves,cares and helps each other on a daily bases. I think that every social worker would love to find houses like that more often.

  2. It amazes me that we seem to be drifting away from "family" ...i'm not talking about what politicians claim to call "family values" but just plain family...we want our kids to grow up far too early and we don't know our neighbours...when we DO raise our kids to stick together and work as a team, psychologists slam us for not letting our kids "live their own lives" ....and again, i'll say that i have nothing against the field in general as I've used them in times of trouble....but to make blanket statements about people that aren't their patients (as if they could make statements if they WERE their patients) is just lame....did these doctors who made the quotes watch all of the seasons? do any interviews directly? doubtful....just made an observation like anyone else....just because we've advanced in technology and aren't living the farming lifestyle of 100 yrs ago when people needed 12 kids to "run the ranch" doesn't mean that if people DO have that lifestyle it's all of a sudden BAD.....

  3. Yeah I wonder if you didn't have that lifesyle back then did you get a freak like they call the Duggars do now? This is kind of off this subjuect, but are some haters saying Josh is a pervert and Jim Bob is on the sex ofender lists? I have seen this some many times I am starting to by into it lol not really, but I wonder if there some thing that happen for them to being saying this?

  4. there was a rumour a long time ago ...because of one of the 1 hour specials that showed Josh with a shaved head...apparently according to some people that is a sign that a "sin" was committed in the Gothard the rumour was Josh molested his youngers sisters...totally unfounded and untrue...he had just returned from ATI ALERT camp where it's like a boy scout training camp and that's why his head was least that's the story from what I've read...frankly i think the whole thing is gross and if he had done something like that his parents would never let him anywhere near that house again...

  5. I think that Michelle and Jim Bob have their hands full with Baby Josie who will need an enormous amount of attention since she ill. It is hard enough caring for one child who is healthy! The older children already have their hands full helping raise the younger children and they are not going to be able to take on an ill child as well. Thanks for listening! Kellie

  6. I think it would be a very selfish choice for Michelle to have another baby.

  7. a) How is it Michelle's responsibility alone
    b) What makes it a choice since they've not used birth control in over 20 yrs?

  8. I'm afraid what people don't understand is exactly what Marybeth was referring to; what makes it a choice when they havn't used birth control in over 20 years. This is a deep seated belief of theirs, that each child is a blessing from God and as such will be welcomed and loved. Having had 19 children who are all individuals and each in their own right a blessing why would they want to go against what they perceive as God's will and prevent another child from having the right to live!

    Many say that they are promoting a lifestyle that is ridiculous and will be detrimental to society. First, how many families would actually have that many children, and second how is their lifestyle detrimental. I just don't buy that they are abusive to their children, turn the girls into slaves, keep their children from a proper education, etc. I think they are doing an impressive job of bringing up all the blessings they have been entrusted with and wonder what the children of all the nay-sayers are really like.

  9. I have to admit that when I read the article my first thoughts were I hope Michelle isn't pregnant. Several reasons, I think she is under a lot of stress right now and medical evidence suggests this can be not great in pregnancy, with Josie's stomach problems she will be needing breastmilk for some time yet and pregnancy may dry that up, and that I think Michelle and family are going to be tied up with Josie for quite some time yet and the distraction of a new baby may not help.
    However, we also have to take into account that the Duggars have chosen to leave it in God's hands. So if I have an opinion do I rant about it on a fan page the Duggars don't even read - no I don't feel it is any of my business to inform the duggars what I think about how they run their lives.
    Having said that I can go to God and talk to Him about it - go right to source - and He will listen and then probably tell me off for not trusting in Him buy hey.
    The point is that when I developed that opinion I was really thinking that I wouldn't be able to cope, that if I were an older sibling I might not want to help out quite so much... but it's not about me, it's not my decision or my life and I don't know what's best.

  10. I can understand how deep-seated the Duggars beliefs are, and understand that it would be akin to admitting they were wrong if they were to use birth control at this point.

    It's easy to pass judgement as an outsider, but we really don't know what is best for them.

  11. One thing that I find interesting in the differences between the Duggars Faith and my own, is that I truly believe that even if a doctor told her that she shouldn't have any more children, they'd probably still leave it "up to G-d." In my own religion, I use the word religion here, not Faith, because Faith is personal, and religion is practiced as a group generally...if a doctor tells you that you shouldn't have any more children, your Rabbi will permit you to use birth control, because in our beliefs the life of the mother is held in very high regard. I won't pretend to know the beliefs of Christians. I'm sure they hold the life of the mother important. But I do get the impression that the Duggars hold G-d's word above any word of man--man being even the best known Doctor around. What I also know is that we follow our Faith because that's what we know and that's what makes us feel grounded and that's what makes us feel safe. That's the whole point of Faith. They'll do what they know and they'll do what they feel safe in doing. They might change if a doctor tells them, but at the same time, she is 44 and who knows if she has many child bearing year left...let's remember she thought Jordyn was her last.

  12. Another thing I find interesting is that so many assume Michelle's OB/GYN has told her not to have any more babies. I seriously question whether she has even seen that Dr since the birth of Josie. I suspect she has only been seen by the surgeon who did the C Section. We don't know that she has even been back to Springdale in the last 5 and a half months.

    Of course the other side to that is Josie's well being and for that we assume it would be best if Michelle didn't get pregnant again, but as Chris says we don't know what is best, God does and if he thinks it is best for her to be barren at this time of her life he is perfectly able to make that happen. I'm sure that Josie has already taught her family many precious and important lessons. If they can get her digestion working right she will probably require no more care than a normal newborn which is essentially what she is at this time.

  13. Your choices sooner or later can impact others. There are those concerned about Michelle's health . It doesn't mean they are haters. I think everyone is important whether they give birth or not. Just a little OT We may preach choice but women are still under pressure in the 21st century to get pregnant, raise families, be married. Shouldn't it be their choice ? What is right for one person isn't right for another. America is still backwards in this area. I also don't buy into the well-behaved kids. No kids are that well-behaved all the time. Thats what the naysayers are trying to say. Jinger raised her voice on the last episode which is unlike her. It could be nay number of reasons.

  14. My prayers are with baby Josie and the whole family. But let's face it, she is a very sick little girl.

    I originally thought it would be selfish for the parents to have another child. But what if Josie doesn't make it through this? Maybe God sent them this precious little girl for just a short time, to learn lessons we don't understand. And maybe God will ease their pain (much like he did after her miscarriage before the first twins were born) by sending them a new baby to love?

    We don't know. That's why we always get in trouble when we try to play God with other people's lives.

  15. You know, I've never heard Jim Bob and Michelle ever say their children are well's the fans who say their children are well behaved...THAT is what makes the naysayers so peeved...proper research will show that Jim Bob and Michelle will be the first to admit that their kids are just as rambuctious as any other kids--she is especially quick to comment about how hard it is to harness the energy of the 6 boys right in a row, and she's well aware that Johanna is a handful. But what they ARE aware of is that their kids are polite, kind, generous, and able to speak to others without being rude, or shy. That's the difference, they've raised their kids to be polite--you can have polite kids who are still, normal rambunctious kids tho run amok.

  16. I would venture to guess that a lot of the people that think they need to stop having kids are pro-choice -- if so -- why not let them have the choice to have more kids if they are so blessed?

  17. Bravo Chipper!!! and i say that as a VERY pro-choice person :) Although I don't think the Duggars see it as a choice...they see it as G-d's will...and more power to them, life will be as it will be and the earth will keep on spinning no matter how many Duggars there are, and frankly, it won't make any personal difference to any of our lives, other than we have a show to watch, or not watch for those who don't like the show!

  18. On the comment about Jinger raising her voice I read the people mag tonight and it saids that Josie being the hospital as put a strain on everybody relationship with each other. They did say it as made them stronger,but they basically have to watch themselves more and pray a lot more about things.

  19. I don't think Michelle is pregnant now. What I think is that the reporter (like they ALWAYS do) asked 'Are you pregnant?' or 'Are you guys going to have more kids?' and she didn't want to say 'No, I'm not pregnant' and then in 6 weeks find out, oops, she WAS pregnant at that time, adn then of course the anti duggar people would have a field day at 'catching' poor Michelle in a lie. So she said the TRUTH. She truly doesn't know, it's always a possibility.

    I have a friend who drives her dentist insane, b/c she won't say 'No' when he asks (before the x rays) are you pregnant. She hasn't had a child in 5 yrs, that was her 9th, and she's over 40. She's aware that it's unlikely that she's pregnant. She can even be 99% sure that she's not. But as an adult woman who is married and who DOES have relations with her husband, she is aware that it is always a possibility that she is pregnant. (They don't use birth control, but she says she'd answer the same if they did, b/c no birth control is 100%)

    I myself, never ever tell anyone 'No' when they ask if I'm pregnant. I say 'Not that I know of' or 'It's always possible!'

    If they are pregnant, the GOD is the one who chose to have another life born to that family. He is the author of life. He would have chosen to bless this family with another life. I will be thrilled for them, and very much believe that this is God's will for their family and we have no right to think we know better than God.

    Love Mrs P

  20. Mrs P, I'm the same way, since we've been trying since marriage, I never know until I DON'T know hahaha so yes, it's always possible for me too, and that's what I tell my doctors...always hope :)

  21. I ma totally pro-choice and I am amzed at how many people think they have the right to dictate to others How many children they should have as well as When they should have them. I felt very pressured by my DH to stop after 2 well that didn't happen we were blessed with a 3rd but I lost that pregnancy BUT in its place I was blessed again with a DD who is my twin in every way. If the other pregnancy had progressed she would never have been born. And I am Thankful for her every day. I know the devastation of miscarriage and it isn't as easy as some epople think but then again although I am pro-choice I would never have an abortion and I think that does change the way one feels about unexpected pregnancy. The attitude towards having children has changed a lot since the advent of more reliable birth control and a lot of the attitude is tempered by the founders of planned parenthood who were supporters of Eugenics. Eugenics is a belief in the pracitce of selective breeding of humans. Margaret Sanger was a believer in it and even more so felt people of a certain social class should not breed at all. Which I feel it does colour people's attitudes towards having children. But it also brings the question why do some people never have children and others keep having them while trying to prevent pregnancy? No one really knows that answer or does not care to give credit to a higher power.

    As to the discipline of the children in regards to the TV shows. In the early specials you saw the kids when the film crew made arrangements to come and obvioulsy the kids were on best behavior as the environment was more controlled. Now we see them as themselves and all that goes with it. As they become less aware of the cameras they will act more normal including raising voices, and rambunctious behavior. As for the house in LR I do not see a lot of damage sure I wouldnt let my kids roller blade indoors but I haven't seen eveidence fo it since so proabably that was stopped because it was bad behavior. Take active kids and lock them up for longer than they are used to and they will act up which is what the little boys are doing. Looks more liek ADHD every day....JK I see more kids being labeled when all they need is fresh air, dirt and a whoel lot of exercise!

  22. Mother of 3, Wife of 1, Friend to allJune 23, 2011 at 6:56 PM

    Hi first time to this site and this is a very interesting topic. I've watched many episodes of the Duggars simply out of curiosity. I am absolutely 100% pro-choice and I don't feel in my heart anyone has any right to decide what’s best for my body. With that said, I also believe that whatever choices I make I will have to someday answer to God, my God.

    I stopped watching the Duggars because I don't agree with all of their beliefs. That’s the beauty of choice. When I don't like something I can simply change the channel to something I do like.

    I don't think Drs. and Therapist have a right to pass their professional opinions on people they've never met. But you can't compare families today to family structure of 100yrs ago. The reality is...Kids do grow up quicker, a college education is a requirement to get a good job, a child needs proper socialization skills to make it in the job market, you are judged by what you where, where you live, and how much you have. Granted, some parts of this county are rural and they don't have the same standards as more urban cities but the eventually you have to conform to modern times. The Duggar kids have been raised in a time that no longer exists and in my opinion it’s selfish that their parents don't allow them to venture out to see the other side. I mean even the Amish give the kids a few years to explore the world and make their own choice. I don't see that with the duggers.

  23. As far as I know, we live in the U.S.A.. We have freedom of speech and of religion. The Duggar family illustrates that there is no such thing as a "traditional" family.
    Both of my children were micro preemies, like Josie. The dedication it takes care for a preemie is daunting and overwhelming.

    Nay Sayers condemn the Duggar for the size of their family. It is the right of any family to create the family they desire. To take away the freedom from consenting adults who are not a burden to society and who dedicate their lives to family.

    People should question the motives of critics of this alternative lifestyle. If it's wrong for a heterosexual married couple to procreate, what can gay couples expect?

    If your to stable you are scary. If you are an alternative family say same sex or interracial are you next?

    If you find a need to criticize those are different than you or whose beliefs are contrary to yours, remember that people have died protecting that freedom.
    If you dont like the Duggars, that is your right.
    There is something you can do, don't watch them. Change the channel and find something else to whine about!

  24. Okay the deal is that the Duggars tv show does not show the "bad" side...Only the good side.

    Jim Bob and Michelle might have been free to choose a large family and religious freedom, but they arent affording their children those same rights.

    They do not allow their daughters to go to college etc.

    The girls MUST become "mommies" to Michelles children once they are weaned.
    The most work Michelle has had to do in ages as a mother has been with Josie.

    In the Duggars religious cult, the doctrine is to "out populate the sinners and take back the USA for Fundamentalist Christians"...They also preach to their followers to run for public office and change policies to skew things towards Christians...

    Look up Bill Gothard

    Look up blanket training

    TLC wont show you that stuff

  25. I would just like to ask you, Tito Duggar, where do you get your information from? I am just slightly curious.
    I love the Duggars, I think they are wonderful. I am not a religious person myself but I can understand the importance of having religious beliefs. The Duggars are religious people but in no way are they in any sort of cult.

    Michelle doesn't 'make' her older children become 'mommies' to the younger ones, they are a loving family and as people have said previously - families stick together and help each other out in times of need. When I was 6 and my little brother was 1, I used to look after my brother while mum was hanging out the washing or cleaning up around the house. I did it because I loved my little brother and I knew it would help mum out. The Duggars are just like that, they are loving and caring and are happy to help out.
    As for College, I do not believe for a second that they have been completely forbidden to go to College. I believe that if there was something out there that the girls really wanted to do and was something they could honestly say they would be wanting to do for the rest of their lives, then I am sure they would go and do it and their parents would be happy for them.
    Also, let kids be kids. Michelle lets her kids run amok, I guess you could say, as they have such a big property for them all to let off a bit of steam. They are pranksters, they do have a lot of energy and they would not be kids if they didnt have that freedom to burn it all off. They have routine, they dont back chat, they don't swear, they don't say 'I hate you' to a member of the family because they are upset about something...they have just been brought up with good manners, while at the same time are able to run around and have fun, to just be a kid.

    I also disagree with this statement you made:

    'Jim Bob and Michelle might have been free to choose a large family and religious freedom, but they arent affording their children those same rights'

    They have been born into a Christian family, so of course Michelle and Jim Bob will teach their children about Christianity and eveything that they believe in. If one or more of their children decide against those beliefs, I don't think Michelle or Jim Bob will be angry or negative towards that child in anyway or love them any less because they have chosen a slightly different path. Their cousin Amy is not as religious as they are but they love her just as much as anybody else in the Duggar family.

    I admire Michelle for carrying all those beautiful babies, both herself and Jim Bob have done a fantastic job with them all. They love their children and it shows when you see Michelle home schooling them or when Jim Bob is teaching them the hands on works such as fixing up a car etc. They care about them enough to be able to put in all that hard work at physically teaching their children everything they will need to know and to set them up for life.

    At the end of the day, who are we to judge what people should and should not do? Who are we to critisise on how the Duggars live their life? They are lovely people and deserve all the goodness in the world :)