What Happens Now?

A great deal has happened since I last posted to this blog. The biggest thing is that I'm no longer a Duggar fan. That interest has waned and I'm actually quite disgusted with the whole family. I find Josh Duggar's new job in DC to be appalling. Now that he has a job with a hate group, frankly I think their show needs to be pulled from the airwaves. On screen they are loving and caring and full of smiles. Behind the scenes they support hate and anti-woman legislation, decry science, and teach their children that they aren't good enough. Probably the biggest thing that's happened with me is that I've become an atheist. I am still very Jewish--you don't stop being Asian if you decide to be an atheist, any more than you stop being a Jew. I just do not buy into the whole god thing. Frankly I'd rather be responsible for my own successes and failures. Why and how? Well I've found that after I gave up believing, nothing changed. Prayer didn't help, lack of prayer didn't change. It's about doing and being. I find it very repugnant to tell a gifted musician that has practiced 20 years that the talent is a gift from god. No the talent was 20 years of dedicated practice, devotion, love of the instrument, and plain and simple hard work. And that is just the beginning. Josh Duggar is a vile and loathsome human being. His twitter feed is full of hypocrisy and a clear display of what a lack of education does for the world. The world is moving forward. The Duggars will become much like the Amish, in that they may continue their way of life for generations to come, but they will cease to have any affect on the real world around them. Gay marriage will one day soon be the law of the land. Choice and women's health care rights will continue to stand. Science will continue to advance. The world will move forward with out them, leaving them and their kind behind in the dust.

How I Came to Respect the Duggars (What This Blog is About)

I first saw "14 Kids and Pregnant Again" shortly after I married back in 2006. I was instantly captivated and set the DVR to record the next showing. I found the next specials "Raising 16 Children," "16 Kids and Moving In," and "On the Road with 16 Children." I was hooked on this family. I'm not sure what it was exactly, I think it was many things. They were so....together. They knew what they wanted for their family and they knew how to get it. As a newlywed (for the 3rd time, mind you) without any kids who had just turned 36 (on her wedding day) I knew that 16 kids weren't in my future but I was hoping for at least 1--debt-free sounded good too.

There is a lot about their lifestyle that is similar to mine. A lot that is different. I too dress modestly for religious reasons, only even more so than they do--I cover my hair and wear long sleeves. My husband and I don't practice birth control, but let G-d decide to bless us with children, and we've been blessed with a beautiful daughter. We live frugally and shop for bargains, watch our budget and are virtually debt free. However because my husband is British we do choose to use credit cards (paid off each month) to collect air miles to fly to the UK twice a year to visit family. We've also chosen to make the trip every two years, if money allows, to Israel. My sect also has a tendancy to homeschool and do on-line school at the same time they do Hebrew school.

While this blog isn't intended to be about politics or religion in general, in the interest of full disclosure I will say that there are things that differ will the Duggars and me. I am an Orthodox Jew, so therefore I don't accept Jesus as my saviour. I am pro-choice, even if I don't use birth control in my own marriage I feel it should be there for those that want to use it and I would never tell anyone they can't have an abortion--that's none of my business. I have no problem whatsoever with gay marriage.

So yes, there are things that seperate me from the Duggars, yet I respect them and feel a great kinship with Michelle. Like Michelle I found my faith as I found my marriage and it grew deeper as my marriage grew. I also stopped wearing pants and began wearing the dresses and skirts after studying the scriptures. She talks of previous dating before Jim Bob and the baggage she brought and being previously married I too know what that's like and I decided this time around to have a traditional "old world" marriage ....arranged through a match-maker and let my husband be the head of the household as she lets her husband be the head of the household. It's the most freedom and the most fulfilled and the most respected as a wife I've ever felt. Of course it could be because I'm finally married to the right man.

Know that this blog is coming from someone who actually likes them and likes the show.

There Really Are No Rules...Just a Few Requests

All I ask is that you respect one another. Other Duggar blogs edit and omit submissions and I won't do that unless the language is profane or the submission is clearly being derogatory to another poster. If it has nothing to do with the topic, the Duggars, or the blog whatsoever, well that just goes without saying now doesn't it?

Of course I'd prefer that you not rip the Duggars apart, but that's your choice, you don't have to like them; but please don't tear each other apart, if you must argue, please be adult about it in your postings.

I will also say this as to applicability to the topic, if you comment is meant specifically for me, and not related to the topic at hand, either positive or negative, don't expect to see it posted, but thank you for the praise and/or criticism--I'm sorry I'm not able to respond back. You're welcome to address me privately at princessmayhem@gmail.com.

Topic requests are welcome--if there's something Duggar related that we aren't talking about that you'd like to discuss, please let me know and we'll talk about it, provided it's in good taste and family friendly.

Leave your topic requests in the comment section....

Cook Like a Duggar: Share Your Simple Recipes

...has moved to the very end as it was taking up so much space...please go to the very bottom to find delicious but easy, simple, humble, and FRUGAL meals...also please feel free, and more importantly, welcome to add your own family favourites!

Not Really Duggaring

I've kind of said this repeatedly, but I haven't had much to say about the Duggars lately and the big reason is: I don't get to watch the show anymore. We don't have cable/satellite and TLC doesn't post the shows on their site. And no, I'm not surfing through You Tube hunting for the episodes, because frankly I'm not THAT desperate to watch them. I've noticed the past season or so in what I have seen that they all seem to be the same. Nothing new, nothing interesting---same old, same old.

Part of it is that I have changed as well, as you may have seen from the new picture on the blog. No longer covering my hair and no longer wearing long skirts. Hello legs! We aren't attending an Orthodox temple anymore and have gone in a more Reform direction in our Judaism only because of where we live and what's available for our daughter. I was also raised Reform while my husband was raised Orthodox we're sort of meeting in the middle--where the Jews are attending en masse.

My choice to uncover my hair was actually a subconscious one that I noticed when we got back from our month in Israel. One day I realized it wasn't covered when I was out running errands and didn't think about why. When I really did consider it, other than I'd just rushed out and forgotten, it had to do with how I was perceived while we were in Israel. "Oh you're Orthodox, judging by the way you dress, so you'll want to live in this neighbourhood...." (we were on our pilot trip for making Aliyah--emigration)....and that just bothered me. No, we'll pick a neighbourhood based on price, if it's close to amenities, school, job, transportation, etc. We're all Jews here, do we still have to sub-divide ourselves up? Apparently so.

I guess it's like that for Christians too. Someone told me there are 33,000 different denominations of Christian belief systems. You don't just believe that Christ died for your sins, apparently it's how he died and who did it and how you go about spreading the word and living the gospel? No idea. Clearly Christianity isn't all equal. But then what religions are--Muslims aren't either, you have Suni, Sufi, Shi'a...no one ever agrees do they?

As I've also said I have other projects going on. My novel is in it's second edit (w00 h00) and almost ready for it's second cold read. We're getting ready to put our daughter into Hebrew School, both my husband and I have been dealing with various and assorted illnesses that while his are nearly fatal mine are merely annoying. So that's why the blog seems to have gone by the wayside.

Truth be told I think I've said all I can say about them. As they continue on I think they are losing some of their credibility for me and their genuineness. Their young children aren't learning the lessons in thrift their older children learned because they don't have to be as thrifty as they once were. And that's great--they are making a good living, but their kids are losing out on those budgetary lessons that are necessary because when those younger kids grow up and move out they'll need them--they won't be rich like mommy and daddy, unless of course there are savings accounts being set up for them. But I still think Jim Bob and Michelle should be passing down those lessons they keep teaching us.

I also think the longer the older children stay living at home with the smaller children in the same rooms....is weird. I don't care if they say they like it. It's weird. I don't believe at all that they are forbidden to go to college, I think they are more interested in what's best for the family's TV show and don't want to a spectacle at their local college. Would you want everyone staring at you in class because you're on TV? Kind of ruins the experience for you.

So there you have it.

Where Am I?

Once again I have to apologize for my absence. The excuses remain pretty much the same. The biggest reason I haven't written anything lately has to do with....I haven't been able to watch the show for the past two seasons. I haven't seen any episodes since they were in Little Rock--Season 4. So without much material,I don't have a lot of things to say.

We've also been traveling a lot....real life is getting in the way. As I previously posted we were in Israel for the month of October, we have been in the Pacific Northwest most of November and December, and then my husband surprised me with a trip to London for our fifth anniversary in February (also my birthday.)

I've also just about finished the rough draft of another novel and it's getting ready for it's first cold read, so most of my writing time is devoted to that, and with my daughter just having turned four, I don't get much writing time.

But occassionally something with come to mind and I'll write about it. Once again, topic suggestions are more than welcome.

And for the anonymous poster asking if I'm the one who "stirred up the drama on that fb page" you'll have to be more specific and be a bit less anonymous.

Oh yes, and of course most of the blame is still being lain at Edward's feet.

Duggars and Dichotomies: One of These Things Just Doesn't Belong Here

This one is for you "mythoughtis" :)

I've been thinking a lot about some things the Duggars say, yet their actions don't quite match up with those said beliefs. We all have those moments, no one's perfectly able to live out their religion in complete and total perfection, if we were, well, I think life on earth wouldn't quite be what it is today. However, since the Duggars have chosen to put their faith as a main part of their TV show, it's fair game to point out things that don't mesh.

1) The Meeting of Dolly Parton - I have no problem that they met Dolly Parton. My problem is how they met Dolly Parton. Jim Bob has gone to great pains to urge us to remove all "worldly" music and TV from our homes that can influence our children. Dolly Parton has been a professional singer for decades. She was a chart topper when both Jim Bob and Michelle were growing up and still watching TV and listening to the radio. In their interviews they claimed not to have known who she was. That right there bothered me. Fine, so they didn't know who she was (ok they are from the south and don't know who she is??) and they are taking their family to go meet her? They indicate that they are somewhat aware that she's a TV/singer personality of some type. Here is the problem....shouldn't they, as concerned parents done some research before exposing their young children to a TV personality? And after such research, is she really a personality that they would have approved of? Yes Dolly has done some gospel singing, but does her entire body of work speak of what the Duggar family stands for?

2) The Girls' Beds - I've mentioned this before in another thread, but this particular point got lost within the main point of the other thread, so I'm going to be more specific here. When they built the house they live in, they had five girls. As they finished the house they had a sixth girl. As they decorated the girl's room, they decorated with five designer matching beds. When the room is panned across during episodes of the show, there doesn't seem to be any room left for adding more beds, at least not more beds that match. The only reason I say this is because these beds all have each girl's name lovingly written across it. Why does this seem like such an issue? Every time someone asks (and they ask and ask and ask) why do you name your kids with "J" names? The answer is 'because we never knew how many we'd have and we didn't want anyone to be left out.' Well granted they didn't know they'd be having three more girls (after the sixth) making a total of nine, but for a family who repeatedly tells the world that they don't like their kids to feel left out, these younger girls are going to be left out of their own room. Their older siblings have matching beds and they don't seem to. Obviously there is going to need to be some rearranging of furniture, some possible use of bunk beds (perhaps the single versions of these actually convert to bunk beds, who knows?) but clearly, not every Duggar daughter will be treated equally.

3) The Gun Picture - This has nothing to do with the actual gun, the owning of guns, the shooting of guns or the possession of guns. I don't care one way or another as I previously wrote about. The point I'm making here is this: What it does have to do is the loving and friendly personas they try to uphold? Again, it's not the guns themselves, it's the pose John-David is making. There is nothing "Duggar-like" about that pose. If he'd just been casually standing there next to a couple of guns, no big deal, but the pose is so...well...non-Duggar, I just don't get it.

So those are the few that come to mind as I write this. As I've been examining those in myself, I have to say, I think it may have to do with who we are as we grow and try to change--try to become "better" people, yet is it really possible to change our innate being. In all truth Jim Bob is a salesman, therefore the Dolly thing was all about salesmanship. Do I have answers for all three? No I do not.

As for the dichotomy that Mythoughtis pointed out in me, well I did try to answer it. Yes I do dress modestly and cover my head. However, I must correct you, I do not cover my head for modesty, I cover my head as a reminder of my faith--that there is someone above me--much in the way that Jewish men wear kippot (yarmulkes.) I am not Chassidic. Chassidic women do cover their hair for modest reasons. And as I admitted, lately I have been more lax on the head coverings, I've been using different coverings, not covering completely--using bandannas so the ponytail sticks out, using hipster beanies etc. Why? I don't have a concrete answer for you, but perhaps I cannot change who I am, while I am living the best orthodox life I can, perhaps deep down I'm reform. While I know that's not exactly true, because I am more conservative than that, I do question myself--someday perhaps I will find an answer--or maybe it's because i can't change who I am deep down, lazy.

You also mentioned my offhand comment about an actor young enough to be my son. Well, he's of legal age. Before my husband I was dating men in their early 20s. Why am I telling you this? To justify my comment? No, not at all. To brag? Probably a little. Actually it's because deep down you can't change who you are...I am who I am and I tend to live my life as an open book.

So Mythoughtis, I hope this finds you well. I would welcome getting to know you better as I have a feeling you have the wrong idea of just who I am. Please feel free to email me ...any of you zephyrweb@live.com

Duggars and Guns: Starring John-David as Rambo

So there's a picture posted of John-David holding a few guns and a pistol in his pocket. Ok don't correct me as to the type of guns he's holding, because I have no clue as to what they were or what the differences are. I'm no expert. I don't even know if the actually shot bullets. I did see the picture and it didn't look fake. There was a young man standing with him and he has been identified as an Indonesian exchange student--he was also holding a gun.

Now let's get my personal views out of the way first. I am not anti-gun. I don't own any guns and never have, but I don't have a problem with legal and responsible gun ownership. I also have no problem with hunting. In fact, with the Duggars living in rural Arkansas, it's always surprised me that hunting wasn't more a part of their frugal lifestyle in filling their freezers with meat for their growing family. They even joked about a deer stand when building their house in one of the 1 hour specials before they had their own permanent show. So there you go, it doesn't bother me if the Duggars have guns.

Here is what surprised me about the picture itself: the pose. I was a little surprised to see John-David with the Rambo-style pose. After all, he really shouldn't know who Rambo is, right? And it wasn't a very peaceful or loving pose either. Even for a hunter, it didn't seem right to me. It just seemed odd. That's the best way I can explain it and I'm still not sure if it's coming out right. If he'd been casually posing with a dozen guns it wouldn't have been stranger than that pose.

And there it is. The only thing I find strange about the entire picture or situation is the pose.

Duggar Drought: I Blame Edward

I received and anonymous post today, telling me it was a shame that I haven't been updating lately. I do apologize. There are a few reasons. Some of them are quite valid and some not so much. But since I've always been nothing but rather violently honest with you, I'll share them.

First of all, as I've said before, we don't have TV service of any kind so since TLC didn't post the shows, I didn't get a chance to watch this past season, except for the first couple that they did post and one or two I was lucky enough to see while visiting my parents. So because I didn't see an entire season, I was kind of without new material to work with. If you go down the blog history you'll see that even with new material we've repeated subjects a few times regardless.

Now I know that this blog isn't reliant on the show itself, but I admit it helps with inspiration on subject matter. It also helps keep them in the forefront of my mind. The past few blog topics came straight from the groups I'm involved with on Facebook where topics get bantered about so I get inspired to write about them further. But since the season has ended, we haven't been talking so much Duggar as other stuff that doesn't seem so relevant to this blog.

Secondly, my life has gotten in the way a bit. We've been doing a great bit of travel lately and we're going to be doing a little bit more. As I posted, we spent a month living abroad in Israel and I wasn't able to post while we were there. And then we were traveling back and forth between home and my parent's house (about 630 miles) for Thanksgiving and Christmas. And while doing both those trips we added additional trips to Seattle to visit my best friend from Jr. High and her family (both times) so that extended each of those trips. It just seems like I haven't been home since September. And now we're leaving again in a few weeks to visit my parents AGAIN, because we're leaving for London, England to celebrate our Fifth wedding anniversary (and both our birthdays.) So, as you can see, I seem to be flitting about the globe and the Duggars don't seem to be my main focus.

Third of all, we're contemplating a move, which is what all this travel is about. We want desperately out of the state of California and therefore we are doing all of this travel in hopes of finding somewhere we might like better. Jobs, business, family, etc. just seem to be getting in the way. I'm also in the first stage editing process of my second novel. (I never published the first one, but I don't want to negate it just because it did get completed.) This one, however does have merit and I do plan to see it through to the end, so that's taken most of my writing focus when I get any.

And finally, probably the most embarrassing, I accidentally read the Twilight books and found myself utterly enchanted with Edward and blame him for my complete lack of focus since last May.

So, I beg you, give me some topics to write about and I'll write about them, I need some Duggar inspiration. And I do apologize for the drought.

Design Like A Duggar: House Plans With Teens and Beyond

This one is dedicated to Heather again...thanks for the idea. Ok so we were talking about the Duggar house and the two large bedrooms--1 for boys and 1 for girls. Interestingly, there are no other bedrooms in the house, other than the parent's room, except for a guest suite off the laundry room that Jim Bob's mom lives in. To me that seems like a lack of forward thinking.

If you watch the 1 hour specials that began their show, you see them repeat over and over that the kids REALLY wanted to have 2 big rooms. Ok that's fine with me. I suppose what bothers me is that the boy's room is so much larger than the girl's room. Ok at the time there were only 6 girls and 10 boys, but knowing that they were likely to have more children, you'd think they would have planned that they might have more girls--and they've since had 3 more girls. There are now 9 boys and 9 girls living in the house and the boy's room is still incredibly large.

Part of the problem is the decorator's fault. She bought the girl's huge pieces of furniture that filled up their entire room. Even when they first moved in and there were only 5 girls living in it, there wasn't a lot of space to move around--there was furniture everywhere. I also never understood why some girls got double beds and some got twin beds. I understand that at the time there were older girls and younger girls, but still, those younger girls were going to grow up in a few years and then what? Also, there is no room to add any new beds.

There was a big argument going on one of the discussion boards about Johanna and Jordyn still being in Graco play cribs. I will point out that you can buy regular mattresses for the Graco play cribs--I have no idea if the Duggars did, but they are available. That being said, where are those two girls supposed to go from their cribs? Will they be sharing beds with the girls that have doubles? Are they going to have to abandon the nice beds and go with bunk beds?

I wonder if it ever occurred to them that at some point they'd have 20 year olds in the same room as 2 year olds. I wonder if the older girls and boys sometimes want some space of their own. I wonder if they are rethinking their house plans. And it wasn't like they didn't rethink them over and over as it was. Remember the special when Clark Wilson, their builder friend, commented how every day they were working on the previous day's revisions. It's also joked about in their book.

One of my biggest arguments to the "but the kids really wanted 2 big rooms" is...yes but you're the parents and you have the final say in things. It's possible to give kids input while still thinking ahead to what the future may bring.

So what do you think they'll do about the bedroom situation? What suggestions do you have? What would you have done if it had been your house?

To Pork, or Not To Pork: Part II

I did think of another reason--I had a brief exchange with Jim Bob's sister Deanna on Facebook a few months ago and she mentioned that they have Jewish ancestors--she didn't indicate which side of the family or how far back, but was clear that there were Jews in their family. It may be possible that the Duggars are incorporating those practices in their lifestyle as a homage to those ancestors. I have no idea if it's a reason, but it's again, another possible theory.

As for "picking and choosing" ...well I think pretty much everyone does that, whether they want to admit it or not, or whether they consciously mean to or not. Jews do it--no two Jews are exactly alike (ok Chassidic Jews certainly try harder) but there are different movements within Judaism--Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, Chassidic....and different beliefs within those movements. There are even more different subsections of Christianity and all have different methods of practice--who's more Christian than the other?--there's an argument for you...

I think the whole point of faith is that you practice what makes you comfortable--that's what faith is--it's what gets you safely through the day without fear or panic--knowing G-d is taking care of you--believing G-d is taking care of you. So you go about that in whatever way brings you peace. Some practices may not bring peace to OTHERS, but that's really OTHERS concern. Some may see other's practicing as incomprehensible, but you need to practice in a way that makes you comfortable. For example--the Christian church run by Fred what'shisname that condemns homosexuals and pickets funerals--i find that offensive, but that's what Christianity is to them and what makes them feel like Christians. I worship at a Chassidic temple, but I'm quite sure that Chassidic life is not the Judaism I was personally meant to practice--it's not quite where my personal beliefs lay--but I certainly support my Chassidic friends in their quest for faith, as they support me in my quest for mine.

I think the Duggars call themselves Independant Baptists for a reason. They are trying to forge their own path with G-d's guidance. A lot of what they do doesn't mesh with mainstream Christianity, but that doesn't make them any more or less Christian. It makes them faithful and makes them pioneers in a sense. All branches of Christianity started out with pioneers.

And one more thing, it's my understanding that Christians aren't supposed to judge others. I think calling them out for their methods of religous practice is a bit judgemental and unfair.

To Pork or Not to Pork, That is The Question

I received and anonymous request to discuss this, and it's also been a popular topic on Facebook since the past show, so here we go. Apparently, and I didn't see the show, there was a 'pop-up' when the Duggars were eating turkey bacon that said they don't eat pork due to religious reasons. And the request was why?

The Duggars do follow some of the Old Testament laws. Why? They feel compelled to, apparently. For instance, they do not have marital relations for seven days following her cycle or for 80 days following the birth of a girl or 40 days following the birth of a boy. However, in Judaic law, she would also have to bathe in a mikva--a ritual cleansing bath--before she could have intercourse again. Also Jews who follow these laws also don't touch each other physically as long as the wife is "unclean"--until she's bathed in a mikva. They don't hug, kiss, hold hands, or sleep in the same bed. No casual or accidental touching is allowed either. Clearly, the Duggars don't follow the law that strictly.

As to the pork--well pork is considered traif (not kosher.) There are many other foods that aren't allowed either--shellfish, scavenger fish, etc. The animal has to have cloven hooves AND chew a cud to be allowed, and fish has to have fins AND scales. There are some birds that are allowed and some that aren't. You also aren't allowed to mix meat and dairy. Clearly the Duggars mix meat and dairy together in the same meals.

The Duggars apparently aren't following all the laws of kashrut, but they've decided that pork doesn't fit into their Biblical lifestyle. I'm not sure how strict they are about it, because I can remember them eating pepperoni pizza and while you can get beef pepperoni, it's not something you find easily at a corner pizza parlour, especially in the south where pig is really popular. This could be a recent choice they've made, not one that they've followed for years. I also question the non-porkness of the hot dogs they've eaten on the show.

Now some kosher Jews aren't kosher away from home. That is, they will eat in restaurants that aren't certified kosher, will eat at friends/family's homes who don't keep kosher. They still likely won't eat the foods that aren't allowed, but it's possible the Duggars will eat pork away from home if it's given to them by friends/family or at a ball park where there's no other choice. At this point, without them clarifying those choices, we only have conjecture.

It's also possible that their health led to the choice. Jim Bob has been trying to lose weight and Michelle is, as she says, a lifelong Weight Watchers member. So it's highly likely that they saw the reasoning behind pork being banned in the Torah (Old Testament) and decided it would be healthier all around if they eliminated it from their diet. Again, it's just a possible theory.

If you have any more questions, you can search "kashrut" or "kosher laws" and will likely find better information. I hope this answers your question, anonymous. Thank you for writing in!

Courting vs. Dating: Just What Does It All Mean?

There was a discussion the other day on the Facebook page about courting vs. dating and why each was the better option. A lot of people who were pro-dating and anti-courting seemed to have a few misguided ideas of what, exactly, courting is, and that could be why there were so against it. So let's first define our terms:

Courting is the idea that you meet someone that you're interested in a future with--marriage being the end goal. You pray about it, discuss it with your parents and/or pastor, and then discuss it with the parents of the person you want to court--asking permission. The Duggars show made it a bit confusing, they showed the beginning of the relationship between Josh and Anna as their engagement. This clearly was not their first meeting or their first time together. During the courting process you don't spend time alone, but with chaperones. However, you do get to talk on the phone privately and email.

Dating can be looked at many different ways. You can date many different people at once casually, you can date one person at a time more seriously, or both at the same time and marriage doesn't have to be the end goal--it can be just to have fun.

Michelle and Jim Bob describe their pre-marriage time together as dating. They weren't chaperoned. They did save themselves for marriage in a sexual way, but they do admit that things "went further than they should have" and that they did kiss before they married. We can only guess what they're referring to.

I think it's important to point out that the Duggar children are not required to go through the courtship process--it's a choice each child gets to make. In fact, when you watch the episode where Josh proposes, he goes out of his way to insist repeatedly that it was his choice to court rather than date. The older girls are also interviewed and express interest in courtship. However this was 3 seasons ago--or maybe 4 depending on how you count--it was season one. They are older and they've witnessed cousin Amy's different boyfriends and multitude of break-ups since then.

The pro-daters seem to see dating as a way to gain experience and learn what you want. I am not going to pretend that I didn't date--I did--a lot. I've been married three times and engaged even more. So I know the ins and outs of the dating ritual in many different forms. I will say this--if you're dating to learn what you want, you shouldn't be dating. Why? Because you clearly don't know yourself yet, if you don't know yourself, you shouldn't be dating other people--you aren't ready. Why would you want to be in a serious relationship with someone if you weren't headed towards marriage or a lifetime together? What's the point? Fun? You can have fun with friends, even friends of the opposite sex, without having to be in a serious relationship.

Not all experiences are good. In fact, I've had many unpleasant ones from dating and the baggage I brought into my marriage wasn't fair for my husband to have to carry. I dated an alcoholic who couldn't tell the truth to save his life. All those lies took their toll and it was very hard to trust when a good guy came along. That was not fair at all--and the only reason I was in that relationship was because I was letting my hormones do the thinking for me. And if you get a guy (or girl) who's verbally or physically abusive (G-d forbid) that takes years and lots of self-help and/or therapy to get over, if you ever do really get over it. That will also make it hard to trust when you move into a relationship with someone healthy and they end up paying the price for something someone else did you to.

Now where do I stand on this? I am all for parents being involved in the process of their kids dating. I don't think they should have the ultimate choice in who their kids date, but I think they should be present as a support system for their children. I think they should know what's going on and be able to talk to their kids about any problems or concerns raised when dating. I like that the Duggars are there for their kids. I personally couldn't abide by the strictness of courting, at least not when I was in my 30s and 40s. I probably could have handled it when I was a late teen or in my early 20s, but frankly, it never came up. I do wish my parents had said a few things about the men I married before my current husband, but when you aren't raised like that, you tend not to listen even if they do say something. I knew walking down the aisle that my first marriage was going to be a mistake, but I was more afraid of cancelling 5 minutes before the ceremony than I was of making the mistake--that's wrong.

I think both styles have their good points and their bad points. I do think it needs to be the choice of the participants, not their parents. No one should be forced into a way of thinking, taught about it sure, but not forced into it. Informed decisions are always a good idea.

Sorry I've Been Absent

Just a little message to explain why I haven't been around. My family and I have been spending the entire month of October living in Israel. Everyday, almost, we've been out and about visiting various and assorted towns and cities, so I have not only been on-line everyday, but I also haven't had TV. When I do get on-line it's only been long enough to check my email quickly and jump on to Facebook and check messages there.

I'm sorry for those of you who left comments and wondered why they didn't get posted in a timely manner. I apologize and I did get them posted. I'll be back in the states in a few days and by next week should hopefully be back to normal. I am very far behind in the world of the Duggars because as most of you know, I don't have TV service. When I left the US, TLC had stopped posting full episodes on their website, so it remains to be seen if I'll have a chance to catch any new episodes when I get back. So that being said, if anyone has any Duggar topics they would like to discuss, I'm all ears!

Thank you for your patience!

Fulfilling Your Dreams: Small and Large

I'm away from home right now so I'm away from the Duggars right now. That means I'm away from Duggar-direct topics right now, so I'm going to kind of wing it and see what you think. Right now I'm thinking of dream and wish fulfilment. I say that because at the moment a few of my smaller and larger dreams are being fulfilled. And interestingly, at the same time, a friend of mine I met through my Duggar-blogging experience, has managed to fulfill one of hers--meeting some of the Duggar family. So I suppose I've managed to Duggarize this after all.

Think back to when you were a little and you had a wish. It may have seemed out of this world, something that could likely never be realized--like walking the Great Wall of China (back when I was a child that really was a big deal because China was all but closed to tourism.) Maybe it felt unreachable because of where you lived--you grew up in a small town and your dream or goal was so far away, or maybe it was unreachable because only a few people in the world ever achieved it--becoming President or going to space or climbing Everest, or maybe it was just such an obscure thing that you never really thought it would happen because it was so--unnecessary in the grand scheme of things like paying bills, raising children, and making dinner. Well imagine now that one of those long forgotten, but not tossed away wishes actually was realized. It's quite a heady feeling.

I've been thinking about my own little silly wish that came true (I'm sorry I can't share with you what that wish is right now, I will soon, I promise) and some of the things the Duggar parents do for their children and trying to project that into my own child's future. I have seen that the Duggars do tend to the small dreams their children have, especially at birthdays. After all, look around--you see a lot of middle aged men trying to relive the things they think they missed out on as children--I don't see the Duggar kids having that problem in 30 years. Are they fulfilling the larger dreams? I'm not so sure--we don't have any lawyers, doctors, pilots, nurses, chefs, or beauticians. However we do have some missionaries and that was listed as future occupation under more than one Duggar child's profile.

So what's the point of this rambling entry? I'm not sure exactly, as I'm still overly sleep-deprived, but I suppose it's this. Never give up on those little wishes you have. They are attainable. And more importantly, share them with the ones you love, because they are the ones who will most likely help you achieve them. In my case and in my friend's case--the one who just met the Duggars, that's exactly how we achieved ours.

Duggars and TLC: Do You Think They Pay Attention to The Fall Schedule?

TLC offers a wide variety of programming, the Duggars being one small part of their schedule. Several families have appeared on TLC, telling their stories: The Roloffs, the Gosselins, and now the Browns. Of course family reality programming isn't all TLC airs, but they seem to be the shows that get the most attention.

We all know that the Duggars do not watch a lot of TV, in fact they go somewhere else to watch their own TV show, if they watch it at all. I remember when the Gosselin marriage was falling apart someone in the media asked a Duggar (I don't remember which one) what they thought about the whole mess and (again I don't remember well) from what I do remember, they had no clue who the Gosselins were. I'm sure they've heard of other TLC families--although now that I write that, I have to wonder if they actually do. For some reason, in my mind, TLC families are like employees and they should know each other--see each other around the water cooler. But then when I actually think about it, I know that isn't the case at all. Each and every show is a seperate entity being filmed by different people, by different production companies, and in different parts of the country. Being on the same network doesn't mean they know each other or have even heard of each other.

I have no doubt that there are a multitude of shows on TLC that Jim Bob and Michelle would avoid. There are a multitude of shows on TLC that I avoid. When I did have TV service I did watch the Roloffs on "Little People, Big World," but honestly, it was because I'm from the Portland-area and it was fun to see my old hometown on TV. The family itself wasn't that interesting to me. I have never seen a whole episode of the Gosselins. I remember watching a few minutes of their first season and I was appalled--she was a shrew and he was hen-pecked. I changed the channel quickly.

I was visiting my parents last week and as such was able to see the series premiere of "Sister Wives." I admit that this subject fascinates me. I've seen several different documentaries done by A&E, WE, and similar networks. With that tidbit in mind, yes I enjoyed the show very much and am hopeful that TLC will post full episodes, or that someone will kindly upload them secretly on youtube. Of course the majority of people aren't going to approve of this show. They aren't going to approve of this lifestyle. That's what makes me think of the Duggars.

Do you think the Duggars are aware of this program on TLC? Judging from the uproar on the "19 Kids" facebook page, many people have written to TLC complaining about the commercials being show during the Duggar's program. Knowing they are writing to TLC, it wouldn't surprise me at all if some had emailed the Duggars as well, letting them know. So assuming that they've been told, what do you think their reaction is?

I like to think with an open-mind. I would hope that with all of the pleas for acceptance and understanding that Duggar fans make, they could at least extend that same courtesy to this new program. No one is asking them to approve of polygamy, or even watch the show, for that matter. I just hope that the same courtesy can be extended to this new program that Duggar fans request for their favourite show. When you get right down to it, both families are, they believe, living out a biblical principle.

Thoughts?

WWDD Part III: A Person Can Be Rational, But People Are Morons

So the title isn't anything a Duggar would do, but the point remains valid. This is going out to all the people who feel the need to bash people over the head with rules, tennants, and commandments.

One reason why I respect the Duggars, while disagreeing with them so vehemently on many subjects, is that I never feel like I'm being preached to. I have never felt like they have some need for me to believe what they believe. They just seem to be living their lives in the way they feel compelled and hope that people will see their example, see their successes and be drawn towards G-d. Example vs. Preaching is a big difference to me.

Lately, those of us who frequent the "19 Kids and Counting" facebook page have been witness to an increased amount of preaching instead of example. At one point it was like the crusades all over again, the Salem witch trials, and the Spanish inquisition all rolled into one. I do not understand that mentality. Sure, you may be right and sure you may be having wonderful successes practicing your religion, but beating people over the head with it isn't going to earn you many friends or converts.

I implore you, hardcore Duggar fans, please try to remember how Michelle and Jim Bob act. Act as they would if they were on the facebook fan page (no they aren't, but pretend if you need to.) And please remember that not all Duggar fans are Christian or even religious at all.

Duggar Advice: What Have We Learned From Them?

We've touched on this in several different posts, but life being what it is, this topic has come to the surface so I thought we could talk about it. I've recently gotten Zephyr potty-trained, for the most part. Granted she refuses to pull down/pull up her own pants, but she isn't having accidents and she's sitting on the adult potty, so I'm happy.

This process has been long and hard for me. I tried several different techniques from books and talking to friends. I think it's important to give Michelle Duggar some props too, especially since I read her advice first and then didn't use it. She writes that she waits until the child is able to pull up/pull down their own pants (getting them on backwards is allowable hahaha) and she doesn't like using the small portable potty chairs. Well I didn't do either of these. We went through a long phase where she would go by herself when she needed to go in her potty chair as long as she had nothing on the bottom half of her body. If she had any kind of pants on, she'd wet them. Finally, somehow, we got past that and she wore underpants only. Then we added pants. Then we took her seat and put it on the big potty (the first time was traumatic, but now it's just fine.) And here we are.

I can see her reasoning on both counts. She had 17 kids when she wrote the book (pregnant with #18--she was born as they concluded the final chapters.) With that many children, having to take a child to the bathroom every 30-60 minutes and take their pants down and back up would be next to impossible--even if someone else is helping her (the child's buddy, for example.) And I also understand why some people don't like the potty chairs. They are kind of gross to empty and clean--it never fails how careful you try to be, they always seem to splash...bleah. She also pointed out that the child likes to try to "help." Zephyr tried to help many times and the mess was frightening. But on the plus side, they are the right height, the right size, and less intimidating than the big thing that flushes loudly. We moved to the big potty as soon as she stopped wetting pants because I wanted to be able to leave the house without pull-ups. Now that she's comfortable on the big potty, she will go on one no matter where we are.

So now that I've shared that story with you, let's talk about other advice or examples the Duggars have shared with us and we've used. I have always shopped similarly to them--discount markets and buying in bulk, buying the store brand (the name brand stuff shown in their pantry during the moving in show was donated to make the pantry look "full.")

We don't buy a lot of used things, because we don't buy a lot of things period, but we do hunt down the cheapest price for things we do buy. When I do shop the used market it's often from a favourite used book store in Portland, Oregon (from their website since I don't live there anymore) and eBay (although eBay doesn't have as much used stuff as they did when they started.)

I do go to local thrift shops when I need things for Zephyr and I have found many nice dresses at a particular one for me. I've even found very nice pants for my husband to wear to temple. The only thing I haven't found (and I have gone to 7 local thrift shops looking) are used shoes. I have never found any used shoes in my daughter's size--most of the stores I went to didn't have any selection at all, even for adults. I'm still kind of amazed as to why that is. So I find her discounted shoes at Ross or DD's. When we lived in London I bought and sold (after she outgrew them) designer baby clothes off of ebay, usually selling them for more than I actually bought them for. I tried doing that once we moved back here and most of the name brand designer stuff didn't sell or sold too cheaply, so I gave that up.

I keep telling myself I'm going to do the Proverb-a-day, but so far I haven't made the time to do it. We have, though, become much more observant in our Judaism and that has made our family more cohesive.

Every time I raise my voice I think of Michelle and remind myself to dial it down. I am hoping that calm and quiet will counteract the hysterics of a 3 yr old who doesn't want to eat her chicken.

I have tried a few of their recipes, but I rewrote them and personalized them a bit.

So while I enjoy them and am fascinated with them, I'm not the best follower in their way of life. What advice from the Duggars have you used and found helpful and successful?

A New Year and New Hope

As you likely know, I'm Jewish. And this month we celebrate the new year and the Day of Atonement (Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur.) We say goodbye to the old year and welcome in the new, and we ask G-d's forgiveness for the sins we've committed against him, as well as asking forgiveness from others for the sins we've committed against them. Why am I writing about this? Because I do see a bit of this kind of behaviour in the Duggar family.

Here's what I mean. In Christianity, you are forgiven for your sins by accepting Jesus into your heart and asking to be forgiven--Jesus has paid the price for the sins you've committed. Of course there's a bit more to it, but we're just talking an overview here. The Christianity I'm familiar with hold your sins close to you, you ask forgiveness in private and tend not to share them with others.

What I like about the Duggars is that Jim Bob and Michelle have an "open door" policy with their kids--their kids can come discuss anything with them and their parents will listen with open minds, open hearts, and friendliness. There isn't a fear there, regardless of what their kids are going to discuss. Sure it's probably tense at times and sure it's probably not always the most comfortable, but the fact that their kids know they have a safe place to go truly impresses me. I was always close to my mom and she's still one of my best friends, but there was NO WAY I was going to tell her things...not just because it would have been hard or embarrassing, but because she didn't want to hear it. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

The Duggars practice of talking privately with their kids, especially the older ones, reminds me a lot of the Day of Atonement. While Jews save everything up and wait until one day a year to get it all out, the Duggars are always willing to hear what their kids are thinking, what they may have done wrong and feel guilty about, and what they may need to ask forgiveness for.

I hope that I can have this kind of relationship with my daughter, that she'll feel comfortable enough to share her heart and mind with me. I know it's not something that comes naturally, it's something you have to work on, to build. This is one more thing that I'll take from the show and incorporate into my own life.

I also hope this New Year is happy and healthy for you all. Thank you for your continuing support!

Say What?: Duggar Production Values

So apparently at the end of the last show, they have a clip for the coming show that has Michelle saying "Some one is expecting!" Now I haven't seen the show or the clip, so I'm going completely on what's been told to me by several people. However, of course now the whole Duggar-universe is convinced that either Michelle or Anna is pregnant. I have to say that I think the producers came up with a great way to get people talking and get them to come back for the answer.

I am going to go out on a limb and say I don't think either Michelle or Anna is pregnant. First of all, if it was Michelle, she wouldn't have used that wording. She would have phrased it more personally, using words that are closer to her. She is always so passionate about her pregnancies, she'd never hold the announcement at arm's length like that--"some one"--no, she'd say "I." Also, I have doubts that she'd "pre-announce" a pregnancy for Anna. I can't imagine her taking thunder away from Anna--she'd let Josh and Anna announce that on their own. And finally, the show we're watching is on a delay by a few months. If either of the main characters were pregnant, we'd know from other media sources, they couldn't keep that a secret for that long--someone would have leaked it either by accident or on purpose. They live in a small town.

Who is pregnant? I'd guess that it's some friend of the family we haven't met yet or haven't seen for awhile. They have a lot of friends who live the same bountiful life they do--after all Mrs. Bates is currently pregnant and almost due to deliver. How old is the Wilson's youngest--are they still having children? Michelle comes from a relatively large family with siblings old enough to be her parents, technically. I would imagine then that she has nieces and nephews that are likely married and having children--so it could be a family member who is expecting. We don't see much of Michelle's family so we tend to forget about them and immediately look to Deanna and Amy Duggar as their only extended family.

We also need to remember that they homeschool and are always looking for lessons out in the world--remember all those field trips? Has it occurred to anyone that it could be a the neighbour's dog that's always at their house? A cat? A farm animal?

Any other theories? What do you think?

Duggars Five Years Later: Everything Turn Turn Turn

The Duggars are well into Season five of their show, add that to the 1 hour specials they did before that started, and they've had us in their lives for awhile now. We've seen them give birth to children, travel the country, visit new countries, marry, and evolve. Everyone changes as life moves on, as you gain experience and learn new things. One of the reasons many people enjoy the Duggars so much is because they don't seem to let their fame change who they are. I say "seem" because whether they mean to or not, they have changed. I don't think they've changed for the worse, mind you, but as you watch the early shows progress into the current shows, there are definate and noticeable changes in their lives and lifestyle.

One thing that really stands out if you watch the early 1 hour specials against a current episode is that they no longer seem to dress their family in the same colour when they travel. The recent trip to DC had Michelle commenting about how as a parent you are constantly counting your kids to make sure you haven't lost any. That was when it occurred to me that they haven't dressed in the same coloured shirts for a LONG time. At least not on the air.

In the early years we always saw them all sitting around the table for school with Michelle teaching. Now we see them scattered about and doing most of their work on a computer. Again I'm not saying this is a bad thing, after all there are excellent on-line school programs. I think this is one case where they evolved, rather than changed.

I think their spending has definately changed. While they still shop used and look for deals, I don't think they are as frugal as they used to be. They seem to be collecting a lot of toys: lots of cars and trucks (used is still a toy), several RTVs, and they have definately upgraded their computers for school from the old ones they used to have. They also always seem to have a different cell phone in each new season. Their grocery shopping and diet doesn't seem to be as frugal as it could be, or used to be. I think they are relying on a lot of convenience foods that are more expensive than cooking things from scratch, but then they always have. In the early specials when we saw them shop they were buying frozen pizzas and frozen burritos.

I think their faith has grown by leaps and bounds. They have seen the fruits of their labour in more ways than one. They have seen the glory of G-d right in front of their own eyes. It amazes me that people can watch season four move into season five and not believe in the existence of G-d.

What changes have you seen in the Duggars? Good or bad, please share your thoughts.

A Pox On Ye: A Duggar Dilemna

Now I have to say this, I haven't actually seen the episode yet, but enough people have commented on it that I thought I'd throw in my two cents. Apparently Jim Bob made a comment during the episode with the kids having chicken pox that since they've now had the chicken pox, they won't ever get shingles. Well, it's time to spread the word that his statement is wrong!

ONCE YOU HAVE HAD THE CHICKEN POX, YOU THEN BECOME SUSCEPTIBLE TO SHINGLES. THEY ARE THE SAME VIRUS.

This question came up on the "19 Kids and Counting" facebook page several times and several people, me included, have told their tales. I had chicken pox as a newborn--about 6 months old. My 10 year old (at the time) sister had them with me. I got shingles at age 38 and it was horrifying! I had one open sore on the middle of my forehead and my entire face was swollen like the Pillsbury Dough Boy. My husband was convinced I had a spider bite, but at the ER everyone who came by to look immediately said, "Oh, that's shingles." I slept with ice packs on my face and was never so grateful as when the nurse gave me a shot of Demerol in my behind.

All 12 Duggar kids who had chicken pox in the episode now run the risk of contracting shingles. Of course not everyone who has had the chicken pox WILL get shingles, you just become able to get it. They say that shingles can/is brought on by overly stressful situations. I have no idea if that is entirely true, as I certainly don't remember being overly stressed when I came down with it. We had just arrived back home from 3 weeks abroad, 2 weeks in the UK and 1 week in Israel and the trip was fantastic. But hey, travel is stressful. I just know that I was surprised to find out it wasn't a spider bite.

A lot of people on the facebook page also brought up the chicken pox vaccine. I, like many others on the page, didn't know there was one. My daughter's shots are all current and I do not think she's had a chicken pox vaccine, as I don't believe it's one that's considered "required." I put that in quotes because nowadays it seems that shots are becoming more of a choice than a requirement like they used to be. When I was growing up there were only a couple acceptable reasons not to have shots at school, and those were religious reasons and if you were one of those people for whom the shot would kill you. I don't want to get in a debate over shots vs. no shots, I'm just talking about the chicken pox shot. And continuing with the chicken pox shot, it was also stated by several people that the chicken pox shot is not terribly effective. Apparently having the shot will not guarantee you a chicken pox free life.

It was also brought up that most people seem to think of the chicken pox as not being very dangerous, more of a nusance than a dreaded disease. I remember a few years ago chicken pox parties being in vogue. Parents of young kids would find out a classmate or playmate had it and all of a sudden a chicken pox slumber party would happen so they could make sure their kid had it at a young age when it was "harmless." Having it as an adult is more harmful, apparently. Doctors freaked out over this idea of purposefully giving your kid a disease and pointed out that chicken pox can have dangerous outcomes.

It would be nice if the Duggars could correct that statement. I am surprised there wasn't a pop-up in post-production that corrected that statement. I hope people don't take Jim Bob on his word, because in this case, he was wrong.

WWDD II - Why We Love The Duggars

A few things have happened in cyberland recently that have prompted me to write this. As I see people posting comments on line, comments that they claim to be in the spirit of The Duggars, I am reminded exactly why I find the Duggars so appealing: They are not at all self-righteous and they do not proselytize.

Yes, the Duggars are a faithful family. They live their faith out loud and proud. They do not, however, smack "non-believers" over the head with their faith and insist that their faith is the only way to live. Saying that I will add that they DO believe it is the only way for THEM to live.

I have never once gotten the impression, after watching the many seasons of episodes, that if I were to meet the Duggars in person and let them know that I am an observant Jew, that they would in any way treat me as someone that needed "saving." I have every confidence that they would respect my faith and honour it.

Leading by example and preaching to the masses are two very different things. The Duggars appear to be quite careful to lead by example and let their actions be a reflection of the scriptures, rather than quote scriptures to those they believe are acting improperly.

There are some things that could lead one to disagree. They do have their "Nike" rule. Apparently when they see someone wearing clothing that is provacative, they whisper "Nike" to the boys and the boys then look away. They also cover up with hands anyone on TV who is wearing provacative clothing. While these are things that could be viewed as them looking down on the wrongly-dressed people, they do these things discreetly and within the family, not directly to those wearing the clothing.

I appreciate the Duggars for their ability to keep their beliefs a priority, but at the same time keeping them personal. Deanna Duggar told me she is descended from Jews. That likely helps with acceptance and tolerance of others.

For those who do feel the need to point out the wrongs of others and continually insist that Christianity is the only path to follow, I urge you to do as the Duggars do: Live your life and your beliefs and tolerate those who choose to live differently.

What do you love about the Duggars? What about them appeals to you?

The Bates Hotel: Duggars Return

Now this isn't in answer to a request that I criticize the Duggars, but rather it's in response to the episode in Season 5 that I just watched: The Duggars going back to the Bates to visit. I wrote about this back in Season Three when the Duggars went to visit the Bates and surprise them with an addition to their house. Now from watching those episodes, you get the idea that the addition was initially to be a small-ish room added onto their house--a laundry room or maybe another bedroom. A day later Jim Bob has turned the addition into a 3-story house built on the front of the Bates current house. There are repeated comments from Bates and Duggars and Wilsons that "blame" Jim Bob...or rather...credit Jim Bob...for the size and expansion of the initial gift.

Here's my other question that has been raised repeatedly on the blog...it's a gift. What part was a gift? Were the Duggars funding the initial room addition or just offering free labour? They made it sound like the Bates had been planning this project for years (possibly saving up for the project) and just hadn't gotten it done--so it's possible that the labour was the freebie. If that's the case then I do have a problem with Jim Bob's grandiose plans--if the Bates couldn't afford his vision, then that wasn't very friendly. "Here, build this massive extension, we'll see you in a few months when we drive back through..."

Certainly it's quite possible that TLC picked up a portion of the tab. It's also highly likely that a lot of materials were donated for product placement or advertising purposes. Those things we'll probably never know unless someone spills the beans and we find an article about it somewhere. You all know I won't be doing that research hahaha. We did see Jim Bob showing off his skill for finding a bargain. He did take the Bates to places with good deals and places that threw in freebies or discounts. However we didn't ever see any money change hands on any delivery or purchase. We may never know.

But that still brings me back to my original point. So Jim Bob brings his kids back a year later (or whatever) and gets a tour of the house that is STILL not finished. Does he offer to put his kids to work? No they go to a parrot jungle. I have a definate problem with that, but since the Bates don't, I suppose it doesn't matter much. The Bates are seemingly happy with their home even if they don't have all 6 bathrooms functional yet!!!

I would love some insight into this. Am I looking at this from the wrong angle? I suppose the Bates could have always put their feet down and said "no, pull it back, too big" and they didn't. They also still have babies coming, so they obviously need the space.

Am I missing something here?

The Duggars, The Birds, and The Bees: Let's Talk About Sex

One of the more fascinating dichotomies I have found with the Duggar family is that for all of their conservative leanings, you have to believe that almost all of their kids know exactly where babies come from and how they were made. Sure the really young ones probably are in the dark, but with all of the kids going as a group to ultra-sounds and with all of the births the older 10 or so have seen, the subject had to have come up. I for one doubt the Duggars are telling them the stork visited.

What was interesting and rather touching was what we learned when Josh got married--that sex and making love are two quite different things. This is a difference that a lot of us have been desensitized to in the world today. The tangent of sex in advertizing aside, I am quite envious of the Duggar's ability to have their children be aware of the science of childbirth while keeping the more sensual discussions of the subject a special event before marriage.

I actually have the hilarious "sex talk" story from my growing up years in that my mother simply told me that I would never be having sex and therefore there was nothing to talk about. Yes she really said that. Was she serious? No, of course not, but what she was saying is that....Heck no I'm not telling you anything. She was the avoidance type and working in the school system, she knew that I'd learn everything the way most kids do--from talking to their friends. Was this the best option? Of course not. I had a lot of misinformation until the film they showed us in sixth grade. Talk about embarassing. The sad thing is that I've been married three times and she honestly would prefer to believe I was a virgin on all three of my wedding nights. I'm 40 and a mother and she still doesn't want to discuss the issue. Ok maybe a little before SHE remarried but that's a discussion for a future therapist.

Back to the Duggars. I'm certainly not one that can claim such luck when it comes to long marriages--I have been married 4 1/2 years and I plan to be married to this man until death parts us--and before you can snark, no I actually didn't see that happening with the first two. But anyway, BECAUSE of my past experiences, I can clearly see why they teach their kids about courtship.

When Jim Bob and Michelle talk about how she had dated previously to him and brought in baggage from those relationships, I knew exactly what they were talking about. Anyone who's gone through a horrifying break-up or been cheated on, for example, will undoubtedly have trust issues when they move on to the next person. I certainly did, regardless of how fabulous, wonderful, and trustworthy the next person is. Unfortunately, that wonderful new person has to pay for the damage the previous person caused. On the flipside, the downside to courtship is that you're waiting until after you've married to find out if you're truly romantically compatible. While that isn't the core of a marriage, it is a big enough part of it.

What do you think is best for kids? Do you tell them from the beginning where babies come from or wait until it comes up--like if YOU are pregnant? Have any fun stories to share?

You Can Disagree Without Being Hurtful: A Ridiculous Duggar Criticism

So I'm reading through the comments and I get one from "anonymous" (of course) posted under the "Rules" section, that says my blog would be better if I would stop worshipping the Duggars--and admit that I worship them--and write about all the criticisms I have about them. Fascinating.

I had thought I'd made my views about the Duggars quite clear in the opening entry. I disagree with quite a bit of the Duggar's core beliefs. I make no mystery of that and list them openly. However, just because I don't agree with someone's beliefs or their lifestyle doesn't mean I'm going to publicly attack them and criticize them. Why is it necesary to criticize? What purpose does that serve? What does that teach others about my character? What does that inspire others to see in themselves?

Do I worship the Duggars? No, I don't. I'm entertained by them. I'm fascinated by them. I have a healthy dose of respect for them. But I certainly don't want to live their life or believe what they believe. I have a healthy dose of respect for ANYONE who has the courage and ability to live their faith openly, honestly, and completely. I certainly haven't reached that point in my own faith--I still don't eat completely Kosher, I drive and use electricity on the Sabbath, and I have only begun my journey into the Torah. The Duggars are truly living their faith--they don't just speak of them, they live them. While I don't care for some of their beliefs--while I disagree with many of them and vote accordingly--I respect them, because...they walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Are they perfect in that? Of course not, no one is.

It's much the same respect I have for my Rabbi and his family. Do I agree with all of his beliefs politically? No, I don't. Is he still my Rabbi? Yes. Because at least when he quotes Torah portions to back up his beliefs, he isn't just quoting the ones he needs. He is living his Torah completely. He does keep kosher, he does follow the laws, and he believes in what he lives. While I still don't agree with his interpretation of the Torah, I respect it. Because there are always more than one way to view a situation, to read a scripture, and to believe.

Yes, there are things the Duggars do that bother me. Yes there are things they do that I'd love to "help" them with. While most of these things have to do with the running of their household and have nothing to do with their core religious and political beliefs, I still will not write about how wrong they are for not doing what I think they should do.

If you read through all of the blog entries I've written, you undoubtedly will find me disagreeing with the Duggars. I would hope that I had kept friendly and upbeat, but I'm sure there are times when I was snarky. The bottom line is that this blog is written as a way for me to discuss the Duggars, not rip them apart. They get plenty of that elsewhere.

It is possible to disagree with someone without being rude or hurtful. To the anonymous who's post began this whole entry, you may want to think of that if you reread what you sent me.

The Elephant in The Room: Duggar #20

People...and people...just won't let it go, so let's get it out there in the open and talk about it some more. I wrote about this long ago, when Josie was a newborn, but let's revisit the topic since it seems to be a magazine hot ticket...

Will the Duggars have #20? I suppose most people read that article and assumed the Duggars were trying for #20. That's not what it said, it said that they would be open to more children if G-d gave them more. There is an inherant difference in those two statements but most people who aren't really Duggar-philes won't see it. There will always be those who assume and believe that Michelle is very methodical about her childbearing--planning each child and having them all on purpose--not of her pregnancies being surprises. Most of us know that isn't the case. Sure she is probably more aware of her cycle and body than a lot of us, simply because she's been through it so many times, but call me naive, I will always be of the belief that they have that many kids because they are head over heels puppy dog in love with each other and that means they have marital relations quite often. Just look at the two of them on screen--after 25 years they are still IN LOVE. We should all be that lucky.

One other belief I will never subscribe to is that Michelle should live in fear now, simply because 1 in 19 had a difficult birth. My one and only had a premie birth and I had pre-eclampsia but I will graciously accept and frankly continue to try for another pregnancy. I WILL NOT LIVE IN FEAR simply because some people think the odds don't look good enough. By that logic, since all pregnancies in all women are potentially fatal to both baby and mother, no one should ever have children again.

The Duggars aren't stupid. Michelle has spoken to her doctors. She's had her check-ups following Josie's birth. She knows what her body is capable of and what her doctors think. Since no one has heard from any of HER doctors, I think it's ridiculous to speculate on what, if anything, is potentially wrong with her body after Josie's birth. Again, ANY pregnancy for ANY woman is potentially dangerous. The Duggars are living their faith and seriously...so far it's working quite well for them. Josie survived and is thriving. Move on to the next complaint please.

Duggar Engagement on The Horizon?

We've had a lot of comments from people hoping for a Duggar/Bates engagement sometime soon. I will be the first to admit that I having been hoping for that for a season or two. Here is why I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.

The more I rewatch episodes from Season 4 and as I just watched the first two episodes of Season 5, I realize that there probably isn't anything serious going on between Jana or John-David and any of the Bates. Think back to when you were 20. Now compound that with the upbringing the Duggar and Bates kids have had. If you finally found the one person you were sure you were meant to be with for the rest of your life, would you be able to stand being away from them for such periods of time? Maybe you would, maybe you've learned a life of self-sacrifice in service for others. But you're also human. You feel.

I can't stop thinking about how Josh acted after he'd realized that Anna was his true love. He was basically useless in Arkansas. He visited Florida every chance he could. The Kellars came to Arkansas any chance they could. It was all about Josh and Anna and courtship. While the Duggars and the Bates have gotten together more often in the past 3-4 years than they have in the previous 15, the Duggar's move to Little Rock and the reason behind it all but stopped those visits. I believe in Season 4 (and I could be wrong, so please correct me) the families only got together once, maybe twice. Once that I can remember--when the Bates came to visit and see Josie in the hospital. Yes Jana looked a little, overcome, as she blushed everytime Zack (isn't that the oldest Bates?) was nearby, but that doesn't mean much.

Would going to Asia for 2 months be something you would actively seek out if you were head over heels the way Josh and Anna were? Again, yes you might, after all high school sweethearts go to different colleges all the time, but I really have to wonder.

I seriously believe that Jana, at least, since the trip was her idea, is taking things slow. I think she's seriously deciding what she wants to do with her life and actively seeking out experiences that will expand her horizons.

John-David, while not as vocal, seems to be leading quite a fulfilling life as well. I'd heard before that he was a volunteer fireman, but this was the first time in my memory that they've shown him in that role. That experience will definately teach him a lot and "grow him up." I do remember that a few of the Bates kids are also volunteer firemen--isn't one of the girls? Michaela?

While Josh was running his own business before he became engaged to Anna, I think that Jana and John-David are going a bit above and beyond the example that Josh set for them. I think that's good for them. I think that it's quite likely that we might see Jana in some kind of school atmosphere before we see her engaged. John-David? Perhaps he will head down the matrimony path first.

Duggars on TV

We discussed, briefly, the Duggars and their TV house rules or policies. Now let's discuss the fact that the Duggars are ON television and that they make quite a nice living being on television. Many people see the fact that they limit the TV their kids watch and their kids being on a TV show as being hypocrytical. I think that's a valid belief to have, you can think that all you like. I'm really on the fence about it, however I have to say that it doesn't BOTHER me enough to choose a side. I guess I'm saying that either way, I really don't care, because I enjoy seeing their show so much that I'd rather them stay on the air.

I do think that if you understand WHY they are on a TV show, you may be a bit more accepting--at least that's why I am. I understand that they are not in this for the almighty dollar, but rather the Almighty himself. They view their opportunity to be on TV as a direct way to show the world how it's possible to a) live debt free no matter how large or family is b) successfully raise your children to be polite, productive, and helpful no matter how large your family is and c) live your beliefs openly and honestly and fully.

We aren't turning this thread into a "cash cow" discussion. Yes they make money from being on the show, and probably even more importantly, they get a lot of perks from being on the show. We know. They know. That isn't the point here. Their reasons for doing a show go much deeper than that and no matter how many times it's been said, I'll say it again: They were debt free before TLC even knocked on the door; they had the house kits bought and paid for before TLC knocked on the door. TLC is not the reason they are debt-free. Yes, they are in a better version of debt-free now, but this is America and they are free to be as capitalistic as they choose to be. That's all there is to that. Please make your comments on this in the posts about this specifically, thank you.

So...Are the Dugar's hypocrites. Tell me why they are or why they aren't.

Duggars and TV

I've written a little bit about this topic before, but it was a long time ago, and now it seems appropriate to revisit the topic. I say that because I was finally able to watch the first 2 episodes of the new season last night and I caught something that some may not.

When most people write of the Duggars, and I'm sorry to say this but it's usually the anti-Duggars--but not always, they write of the Duggars not watching any TV. This just isn't true, and the Michelle even said it in the into during the first and maybe second season. "We watch VERY LITTLE TV..." Not no TV, but very little TV. I believe what she is referring to here is BROADCAST television--shows currently on the air. Many many times we've heard them talk about videos and DVDs they allow their kids to watch. Frankly I believe they do what we do...they have no cable or satellite service and only watch things through a VCR/DVD player. My husband and I take it to the next level wherein we both catch up on our favourite shows on-line (19 Kids and Counting, for example--thank you for posting them TLC.)

I will be the first to admit that as parents we are not as restrictive as the Duggars. My daughter watches kid DVDs of the standards--Blue, Dora, Little Einsteins, Ruby and Max, Builder Bob, etc. I'm sure most of those aren't seen at the Duggar's. She's also been exposed to the TV and movies that my husband and I enjoy. Funny or sad, she does start singing "men men men men" when she sees any picture of Charlie Sheen.

So why am I bringing this up now? Like I said, something I noticed when I watched John-David and Jana staying up all night to avoid jet lag--never works for me by the way. John-David mentioned that they watched a few westerns. This reminded me that the Duggars do watch some TV that isn't necessarily Christian based. I have no doubt that John Wayne movies are allowed. They are also rumoured to have the entire run of "Andy Griffith" on dvd. So there is some that's definately allowed. I'd say it's allowed but not encouraged. Of course it's far more healthy for the kids to be running and playing and using their minds rather than sitting in front of a TV screen. And yes, my child should be too. Honestly, I think having so many kids makes limiting TV much easier--if my child had siblings to play with she probably wouldn't watch as much as she watches.

We'll discuss the Duggars BEING on TV tomorrow :)

You Gotta Have Faith

I haven't seen the premiere episode of Season 5, but I did read the interview the Duggars gave and saw the clip from the "Today" show. Is anyone at all surprised that they are more than willing to receive more children? Of course we aren't--those of us who have faith.

Now I'll be the first to admit that my faith is nothing like the Duggar's faith, but I will say that I have the utmost respect for them. I have respect for them the same way I have respect for my Rabbi and his family--and I don't agree with everything they teach either--but I always have respect for anyone who lives their faith so completely and wholly. They certainly do a better job than I do, than a lot of us do, and that deserves some recognition as far as I'm concerned.

Faith is a constant, yet every evolving entity. While it's true that I can only speak for myself, in watching others live theirs, I honestly believe that faith really is what gets you through the day. Faith is that extra hand helping you through the hard times and applauding you through the good times. My faith has always been like an appendage, something I only rarely have to consciously think about, because it's always there, always with me. I believe because I don't know how not to believe.

The Duggars aren't as subtle with their faith. For them it's always in the foreground. Yet while that's apparent, it doesn't appear to be something they have to work hard at. Of course we all have times of stress and weakness, but by watching them it all seems to come so naturally to them--it never appears to be something they have to work hard to reconcile. I find that admirable.

How do you feel about the Duggars expressions of faith? What does "faith" mean to you?

Duggar Season Five: What Do You Hope to See?

It's that time again, the time we've all been waiting for: a new season of the Duggars is about to begin! I admit that season four ended, for me, a bit anti-climatically. A lot of us had hoped for some kind of announcement, some revelation, and that never came. It was nice, though, that things ended calmly. Season four was hard for me to watch--the constant reminder that something wasn't right--that something could go horribly wrong at any moment--was difficult to endure.

Now that things appear to be on an even keel with the Duggars, Josie is home in Springdale and we're told she is happy and healthy, it's time to move on to a more cheerful time in their lives. We hope.

The Duggars are not a family that sits idly by, watching the world pass in front of them. They are clearly the type of family that is out in the world experiencing everything they can. That's one of the things I love about them. They are the type of family you can live vicariously through, and they don't mind it if you do.

So now that a new season is about to begin, what are you hoping to see? Some are hoping for a new pregnancy for Anna. I myself am more excited for a wedding announcement--or two. I would love to see a Duggar/Bates wedding with Jana. And maybe John-David. Something that occurred to me, that I haven't heard mentioned yet, is another Duggar/Keller wedding. Anna's sister spent a LOT of time visiting--is it possible a romance brewed between her and a Duggar? I've mentioned this before, but no one has commented--what about the Wilsons?? They have a son, or maybe two, that seem to be...older...Josh's age or maybe John-David's age. Is there a possibility that a Wilson and a Duggar could match up?

I would like to see the older ones out pursuing their dreams. Whatever those dreams might be. Although I doubt filming them going to school would be all that exciting to watch. Maybe just a casual reference to it would do. I think it is important to remember that just because we aren't shown it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. They seem to take great care in packaging the show so that we see only specific things. I understand that: it's a theme-driven show and not a blanket reality show, they do want to give the kids some semblance of a life separate from filming, and some things just don't have all that much entertainment value.

As we begin the count down to Season Five, tell us what you hope to see!

Duggars on Hiatus: What Have You Heard?

The Duggars have had a much needed and much deserved break this summer and because of that, the blog hasn't been as active as it is when the show is on the air. I apologize for not writing as much as I have been, but I've been having a bit of a hiatus as well.

So I've been thinking, as many of you have probably been as well, what are the Duggars up to this summer? Contrary to popular belief, I am not a Duggar maniac to the point of searching the internet for Duggar news. If something happens by me and I read it, fine, but no, I don't actually go searching for Duggar updates. I have heard the Facebook rumour that Anna is pregnant again. I did hear that John-David and Jana are back from their mission trip to Asia. And of course I heard about Michelle's "Mother of the Year" award ceremony. Other than those events, I haven't heard much of anything in Duggarland and so I'm asking you: What have you heard about the Duggars this summer?

Please share any Duggar tidbits--along with where you heard it, web addresses to news articles, etc--and what you think about what you heard (do you believe it, do you agree or disagree with it, and/or do you think it will make the show in the coming season).

Finding Your Calling

One thing I've noticed about the Duggars, when they talk to their kids about careers and future endeavors, they speak of the subject on a much higher level than most people do. Now this feeling could just be a contrast to how I was raised, but I get the distinct impression that the Duggars view the future as a calling and not so much a personal desire. I don't want to diminish the fact that they DO urge their children to follow a career path that is personally fulfilling--they have said that a career is something you'll be spending a lot of time doing so it should be something you enjoy--but it seems they want even MORE than that for their children, something they enjoy so much that they are literally pulled towards doing it.

I'll admit my parents never had the "what do you want to be when you grow up" talk with me. In fact my father actually told me that it's possible I might not want to do anything at all. I'm pretty sure that annoyed my mother, but actions speak louder than words and neither one had goals for me beyond princess. And that's pretty much how my life turned out. So bear in mind that I don't have the career experience or career path planning that the Duggar children are receiving. Does anyone?

People have criticized the Duggars for not having their children in school or out working at early ages, but if you analyze their conversations and interviews it's clear they want their kids to be sure of their choices. Yes again I understand that actions speak louder than words...saying their kids are free to go to school and yet not having any kids in school can be viewed more than one way.

I firmly believe that Jim Bob and Michelle want more than just careers for their kids, they want their kids to find their calling. There is a distinct difference between the two and the second can take more time than the first. That's my opinion on why their kids are slower than some to get out and tackle the world--they are waiting to be called to something vs. jumping into something because it might be fun or might be interesting. The girls ready to examine their career goals have done things I've never done or known anyone to do--they visit and shadow people who have that career. I began my freshman year in college as a nursing major because I thought I wanted to be a nurse--it never occurred to me to tag along behind one before registering for classes. No one even suggested it. Makes sense and saves a lot in wasted tuition money.

Calling--usually a word reserved for those called to the religious services. However I think in the Duggar's case, even their careers have some level of religious service to them, regardless of what that career is. I do believe that they hope their children will be guided by a higher power when moving into a career and I believe that "calling" is an accurate description.

What do you feel "called" to do?

Mission Trips: A Duggar Dynasty

I will be the first to admit that my mission trip experiences are probably NOTHING like the ones the Duggar children have had. Growing up in my parent's church, I was an active participant in the youth activities; it was a small town and that's where all my friends were anyway. The other reason? BOYS! The random and square-dance like parings and re-parings were comical when looked back on. So that being the case, I have no doubt that the Duggars aren't in it for the gratuitous make out sessions when no one is looking.

Now that's not to say that our mission trips weren't successful and useful. The several years before I was "of age" to attend, our Senior High group would go to Mexico for a week every summer (with a week added on for the drive down and a stop at Disneyland on the way home) to build and help at orphanages and missions there. In all honesty, from talking to kids who went on the last Mexico trip, it was a tent-hopping good time. Undoubtedly that was one of the reasons it was the last trip. When it became my year to start going, we only went as far as Northern California and worked with a group that was set up there--kind of like going to camp, but winterizing homes for the poor. The downside to the project was that we didn't really get a chance to bond a lot with the people we were helping--we'd show up and work at our assigned home (we'd been divided up into groups based on our abilities--boys and girls divided up for grunt work and painting--and so we'd meet other people from the other groups there at the same time we were.) So we met and got to know the people we worked WITH but not so much the people living in the homes. They were usually working. Sometimes they'd be there, but you could tell they were grateful, but on some level also maybe embarassed in needing the help.

I won't say I didn't have a great time on the three trips I took--I was out my junior year because I had surgery instead--they were great times. I made a lot of friends and had pen pals for years afterwards. (Remember this was long before email!)

I must say that I'm way more impressed with the Duggar's trips than the ones I took. I don't want to diminish any of the work we did, we worked hard and were pleased to do it, but I don't think we gave nearly as much of ourselves as the Duggars seem to on their trips to El Salvador. We certainly never gave any of our own money into the project, other than our parents paying our portion for the drive down and the fee to join the group sponsoring our effort. The Duggars use their own money to buy gifts, clothing, food, and supplies for the people they are helping. I hate admitting that at the time, things like that never occurred to me. I was just there because it was what my friends and I did every summer.

I do think that going as a family is nice, and they do appear to meet and enjoy the people they are helping while they are there, but I can't deny that they might get even more out of the experience if they went with a group and got to meet other people who were there for the same reasons. You can never make too many friends.

Now it's time to share your stories--Did you go on Mission Trips when you were growing up? Do you go on them now?

Duggar Politics: Communal Capitalists

The Duggar political machine has always fascinated me. I will admit that I don't agree with any of their political ideals, but at the same time I have great respect for the fact that they so actively participate in our political process. In this day and age people take their right to vote for granted and I find that sad--especially when there's so much work to be done and so many people complaining.

I will also admit that the fact that Jim Bob became a state rep surprises and annoys me on a few levels. I don't have a problem with him running, but it goes against the grain that he was elected. While he may have the experience and point of view of the common working man/small business owner to bring to the table, I sincerely doubt he brought much else. Okay maybe that is my own personal belief that an elected official should have some kind of education beyond the high school diploma, but I can't deny my feelings.

We all know the Duggars views on abortion. From reading their book and hearing them in interviews, it's clear that anti-abortion legislation was Jim Bob's key platform when running. What little research my husband did (he's not a fan AT ALL of this family) shows that abortion is the main issue he showed up to vote for. His appearance record wasn't stellar, but then few reps show up for every vote, so we have to be fair. It just shows what his priorities were as a rep.

We also know that the Duggars have made their money by being successful capitalists. Jim Bob hasn't worked for anyone (TLC notwithstanding) since early in their marriage when he worked for a grocery store. Since then he's owned his own small businesses, some two or three at a time. We can't ignore the Duggars willingness to work hard and accumulate wealth. The last debt they had (hospital bills not included) was the first home Jim Bob bought before they were married. To say that TLC "saved" them financially is a mistake--they were debt free and living happily before TLC came to the door and undoubtedly would have continued to live debt free.

Clearly they have conservative values and beliefs. And when you add all this up you aren't surprised that this family is Republican in their voting. They still have McCain/Palin bumper stickers on their car and the election was over a long time ago. Now why none of this is at all surprising, what is interesting is that they way they live, worship, and share with those similar to them could also be viewed as quite communal. The Duggars are very kind and considerate of others--not to be viewed as a trait contrary to Republicans, I'm one myself, but is interesting that a lifestyle usually equated with "free spirits" or even hippies, is one that the Duggars have inadvertently embraced without probably realizing it.

Michelle has said that each child has their own space and the ability to lock away their personal possessions from their siblings. However we also read in their book and hear in interviews with the kids that they basically share and share alike when it comes to toys, books, and even goodies. The Duggars go beyond sharing within their family. They are virtually selfless when it comes to giving to their friends and members of their church family. When someone needs something the Duggars are the first to give what they have--they also pay for all the food/clothing/gifts that they take with them to El Salvador and buy while they are there for the families they are there to help. Helping others in this way is also not necessarily a non-Republican trait, but when you look at legislation the argument could be made.

I do see a lot of their lifestyle as being near communal. They might not view it that way, but the case could be made. They are also quite clearly living a lifestyle that was made possible by a pure capitalist view. It fascinates me to try to wrap my head around those two seemingly polar opposite stances.

What do you think? Does this give validation to the cult theories? Or are they a simple family who is trying to be a good example?

H-E-Double Hockey Sticks: The Duggars Keep Smiling

It's been pointed out on more than one occassion by more than one person that the Duggars raise their children not to show any emotion and to "always" put on a happy face. I think that is a little bit extreme and not entirely true.

We've seen various Duggar children in different stages of unpleasantness, but I think we can point to Jill as our lead example. Jill has bawled and blubbered on the TV screen more than once for more than one reason and instead of being "taken to task" for it, she was not only allowed to show her feelings, but she was comforted and encouraged by her father. In fact, it was one of the more moving Duggar parent moments--watching your child face dental surgery known for it's pain and seeing the fear and anxiety in that child, and doing your best to comfort and assure that child while still making them go through with it. If the Duggar children were really taught to surpress their emotions, that display would have never been tolerated, much less supported.

I think there is a difference from being taught to surpress your emotions and taught not to react emotionally. Letting your emotions rule your every response can have negative effects not only for you, but for those around you forced to witness your every display. Who wants 19 kids throwing a fit everytime they don't get the colour popsicle they want? No one wants even ONE child who continually has that response. I see no reason to coddle that kind of emotional outburst on a daily basis. It is entirely a different animal to be allowed to express your fear, grief and anxiety in legitimate situations. We've seen the kids have this freedom in more than one instance and that is quite healthy.

They were allowed to grieve and feel however they needed to feel when their Grandfather passed away. Men of Jim Bob's generation and most likely in Jim Bob's part of the country, were raised not to cry. Most men pre-70s were taught that crying wasn't manly. I think I saw my father cry once and that was at his Mother's funeral--but I honestly don't remember so I could be guessing. He never cried in front of me--even when I saw him in the hospital after 3 of his strokes and when he knew he was never coming home, but going to a nursing home. He may have, but if he did he did it privately or in front of my mother. Jim Bob even pointed out that he was willing to show his emotion over his father's death in front of his children so they'd understand it was all right to grieve publicly for a man they loved and would miss. To have that foresight while dealing with grief yourself is staggering to me.

After saying this, I'd love to know where the idea that "you're going to hell if you don't do as we tell you--show no emotions" hypothesis comes from. I have never EVER heard the Duggars use the word "hell" or any euphamism for it in a Biblical sense. There are many forms of Christianity and many ways to approach your beliefs--some denominations do seem to subscribe to the "fire and brimstone" version of G-d, however most seem to subscribe to the loving and kind G-d who isn't waiting to punish. I've never seen any evidence that the Duggars are of the "fire and brimstone" belief. For a family so open and honest about their religious beliefs, I'd think after 4 seasons we'd have heard something about it by now.

Do you think the Duggar kids are taught they'll go to hell if they don't follow the Duggar belief system? Do you think the Duggar kids are forced to put on a happy face? What are your supporting facts? Please share your ideas.